AMENDED
My_question_is: Applicable to both US and
Canada
Subject: Buying investment properties in USA
Expert: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday December 26, 2007
Time: 01:48 AM -0000
QUESTION:
What is the best way to either structure a company (Canadaian or USA)or set myself up personnaly to shelter / minimize taxes paid as a Canadian resident, working in BC, investing in real estate in San Diego,California, USA?
Subject: Buying investment properties in USA
Expert: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday December 26, 2007
Time: 01:48 AM -0000
QUESTION:
What is the best way to either structure a company (Canadaian or USA)or set myself up personnaly to shelter / minimize taxes paid as a Canadian resident, working in BC, investing in real estate in San Diego,California, USA?
-----------------------------------
david ingram replies:
There is no one best way because everyone is different in terms of estate, family, immigration and other issues.
In general I do NOT recommend buying in the name of a company. If the desire is to escape public liability, you do that with a good insurance policy.
david ingram replies:
There is no one best way because everyone is different in terms of estate, family, immigration and other issues.
In general I do NOT recommend buying in the name of a company. If the desire is to escape public liability, you do that with a good insurance policy.
Directors can be held liable for many, if not 'most' responsibilities of a
limited company if the creditor or wronged person wants to pursue it. Think
of the driver of a car belonging to a limited company. They sue the
company AND the driver.
If you incorporate cross border, be prepared for an extra
$2,000 a year in accounting plus legal fees plus extra state filing fees.
california has a minimum $800 a year government filing fee for an LLC as an
example.
The following older Q & A may help.
The following older Q & A may help.
QUESTION:
We just purchased property in Spokane Washington( a 4 plex apartments)
We plan on renting out 3 of the units and keeping one. I was told by the border crossing inspector,
that I have to hire a rental agency in order to rent out the apartments.
and I also have to have a property manger full time..
We will be at our apartment approx 2 times a month..
So we do not need a property manager.
Do you know if this true,, or please direct me to the correct person that would be able to help me.
Thanks for your time.
----------------------------------------------------------
You need a property manager if you do not want the strong possibility of going to jail for a few days before being deported and then not allowed back in the USA. For a story about US Immigrations hell for a Holiday Inn Manager, try
http://apostille.us/news/local_holiday_inn_express_manager_in_jail_on_immigration_charges;_husband_fights_for_her_return.shtml
or how about a married woman's ordeal in Georgia for a traffic violation at
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=f4f1d2fb-07ae-4560-8f6c-703acf8146fb&k=0
Crossing the border when you have an ad running to show the premises and saying you are going down to spend the weekend in your holiday home (i.e lying to the HOMELAND Security official) could result in seizure of your vehicle and a ban for up to 10 years under their ER (Expedited Removal) process. In other words, it is more serious to lie to the guard at the border than it is to do the work.
You 'could' actually show the property for rent, but you can NOT write out a contract for rent or collect a single rent cheque (check) or cash for rent in the United States. There is nothing new about this. The first time I ran into it was in 1972 or 1973.
If you are physically there, you can NOT cut the grass, shovel the sidewalk, paint or decorate or repair or fix or remodel or improve or take out the garbage for any part of the rental property.
You can paint and clean your own unit if it is NEVER rented or intended to be rented. You can not paint and clean up getting the property ready for rent so DO NOT make the mistake of thinking you can live in one, clean it up and remodel it and then rent it out and do the same for another one and then another one and another one. If you do this and one of your tenants (who maybe doesn't like you because you evicted them or told them to turn their strereo down when you happen to be in town or for any other reason) read my website, (or the uscis website) he or she would find out that you can NOT do this stuff and could phone the Homeland Security office or write an anonymous letter and you could be arrested in November 2008 for something you did in December 2007.
This may seem unreal, but in US terms, working without a visa is just as serious in law as the spontaneous robbing of a convenience store and the penalties can be worse. Think of those nightly news shows with 28 illegal Mexican or Guatamelan citizens being stuffed into Paddy wagons on the Arizona border. This is not a racist comment but with the Mexican illegal immigrants, bing rounded up and shipped back across the border is a way of life with no social stigma. For a nice clean living Canadian, being thown into an immigration detention cell for taking money for rent is a devestating experience. In one case, a mother and her son were thrown into jail for 5 days in Phoenix when she went to Phoenix from White Rock BC. Her husband owned 18 units and HAD a property manager. Unfortunately, he also died in the arms of that female property manager and his widow then fired the property manager and she and her 20 year old son went to Phoenix to collect the rent and hire another property manager.
The property manager (who knew the law as everyone in Arizona does) phoned Homeland Security who showed up and arrested mother and son and threw them into the notorious Phoenix Immigration hell with some 300 other illegals. To rub salt into the widow's wounds, the property manager ended up with the property because she was a second mortgage holder on the property and the property fell into default because of the widow's cash flow troubles, largely because she could not go to Phoenix to hire another property manager.
For instance, for 'you', this kind of arrest could result in imprisonment for a usual five days in a US immigration jail until you posted $5,000 bail each and then being banished from the US for five to ten years.
It does not stop there. This type of conviction would stop you getting on an airplane which stopped in the USA on the way to Mexico. AND, under new US laws that have been proposed but not yet actually put in place, the arrest and banning would stop your Nov 6 trip to Cancun because people in this position will not even be allowed on commercial airliners that are flying over any part of the US. To get to Cancun, you would have to fly from Calgary or Vancouver to London England and then back to Mexico City and 'then' to Cancun and reverse it to get home.
This may be overkill but 'You' are / were lucky that the inspector gave you the correct advice BEFORE you put your foot in it.
By the way, for income tax You ALSO HAVE TO FILE A 1040NR US TAX RETURN WITH A SCHEDULE E AND A SCHEDULE 4562 EACH. Then the same income gets put on Schedule T776 of your Canadian return. If you have paid tax to the US, you will claim it as a credit on Canadian forms T2209 and T2036.
These older questions will help you AS WELL.
QUESTION: Hello David, I'm living in Vancouver, finally paid off the student debt but don't see myself getting into
the expensive Vancouver market. I do however like to ski and was thinking of buying an
inexpensive trailer (25k Cdn) in Maple Falls Washington.
However I'm not sure what other expensives I should expect given that it's in the US.
I'm not trying to make this an investment with a high return, but I would like to do some
handy work to it to increase the value. If I add about 10k worth of value, how would that
affect my taxes in the long term? Thanks for the advice.
---------------------------------------------- david ingram replies: One of my favourite weekends ever was in 1973 at the Chandelier (think it has a different name now) when marooned at SnowLine because of the gas shortage when one could only buy gas on odd days if your licence plate ende dwith an odd number and even days when it was an even number. Strangely, it was that weekend 34 years ago that lets me answer you question now. The cabin I was staying in was not a rental but was built by the fellow who owned it. When he was building it, buddies would come down and help him and one weekend, the INS raided the spot and deported a bunch of his friends for working in the US . He was fine building it because he owned it but no one else can hammer a nail, paint a board, install a sink, or carry a shingle if they are not either an owner or a legal US citizen or US resident with a green card. If your buddy is working and living inthe US with a TN, H1, O1, P1, L1 or any other visa but a green card, they cam NOT help you either. And, if you are intending to rent the trailer out 'EVER', 'you' can NOT hammer a nail, sweep the front steps or clean the toilet. Assuming you are buying this trailer on its own lot, when you go to sell, you will owe the US income tax on the profit. If it is your only pioece of real estate at that time, you will not owe Canada any tax because you can claim it as your personal residence if you have not bought another place. ------------------- However, I would far prefer that you stretched your resources to buy something in Canada to live in and combine your present rent and the payments you would have to make for the trailer to buy your home in Canada. If you can't afford a one bedroom, buy a studio. Go down to Ikea onteh Lougheed highway and look at how much they can put into a small space. Interestingly, I read the other day that Ikea has now sold enough furniture in North america that 10% of all children are conceived in an Ikea Bed. Now that is information worth knowing. Good luck
.
QUESTION:
If a Canadian citizen purchases real property in the U.S. are they required to have a U.S. Social Security Number? Am I correct that my tax liability will be to the U.S., whilst reporting my income to the CRA but with offsetting foreign tax credits due to paying U.S. income tax? For liability purposes, would it be more beneficial tax-wise to hold the U.S. properties under a Canadian or U.S. corporation? Thank you.
david ingram replies:
Assuming that you are going to rent the property out, you will need an ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number). Fill in a W-7 and submit it with your first tax return or try and get it at the bank where you get your mortgage.
I do not suggest a corporation in either country unless you want to spend a couple of thousand dollars a year extra on accounting. As a foreigner with a US corporation, you will need to fill in form 5472 with your 1120 corporation tax return. Then, becasue the mind and control of the coproration is in teh hands of a Canadian resident, you will need to file again in Canada.
This older Q & A may help
My wife and I are Canadian citizens and own a rental property (house) in Arizona.
Do I need to file income tax in the USA? Can we deduct the mortgage interest
and any expenses associated with the rental on our Canadian income tax return? Thanks and regards, ______________________________________________ david ingram replies If you do not file a US 1040NR with Schedule E and Arizona 140PY or 140NR return, you face the likely Federal penalties of a $1,000 to $10,000 fine each per year for failure to report rental income as a non-resident plus 30% of the gross rent with no expenses allowed. That is for each of you if you both own the property. And, I have never seen a $10,000 penalty. Then, you will EACH be assesed 30% of the gross rent with no expenses allowed. (Canada's penalty of just 25% of the gross rent with no expenses in reverse seems mild in comparison.) FILE the US returns for every year you have missed. THEN - There is NO responsibility for you to claim any rental expenses on your Canadian return. You can claim them if you wish on form T776. HOWEVER, you MUST report the gross rent on line 126 of your T1 if you do not claim expenses and the net rent if you do,.If there is a legitimate rental loss which has not been created by your using the unit personally, you can use the loss to reduce your other taxable income. A Warning. There is ample evidence that the IRS and CRA are pro-actively sharing information about these. And, if you are in a complex and using the unit personally NEVER talk about the fact you have not filed a US tax return and don't ask a local. I personally know of two people who make their living turning in Canadians who are not filing their US returns. There is a 10% to 30% reward for turning you in by filing US form 211. See it at www.irs.gov - click on forms, etc. If you need help with this, you now know where we are. ---- --QUESTION: We have a rental property in the US. Can I claim the property taxes paid on my condominium as a rental expense deduction on my Canadian taxes? Form T776 mentions only Canadian property taxes however, the general guide states that all expenses can be deducted. -------------------------------- david ingram replies: Anything that can be claimed on schedule E of the US return can be claimed on form T776 You need to do your Schedule E 1040NR first and then convert the US figures to the T776 on your Canadian return. If the condo is in Arizona, you would do a 140NR or if in Califormnia, a 540NR. There is no state tax in Florida, Texas or Nevada, the other three popular places for a Canadian to have a rental US condo. The difference between the two counties is the method of claiming depreciation. In the US, you MUST calculate thedepreciation and include it even if it creates a loss. The good news is that the operating loss caries forward as a future deduction agaisnt rent OR Capital Gains as opposed to non-resident losses in Canada which unfairly disappear into the ether. In Canada, you do NOT have to claim it and if you do, can only claim enough to create a zero rental. Depreciation or CCA (capital cost allowance) as we call it can NOT be used to create or increase a loss. Make sure that you do theUS returns, particularly if you are losing money. The penalty can be a minimum of $1,000 to $10,000 PLUS 30% of the gross rent for failure to file a US rental return by a non-resident. We, of course, are ideally suited to look after these for you by fax, snail mail, email or courier. --------- _____________________________________________
QUESTION:
Hi,
My wife and I are looking at possibly purchasing a condo in Palm Springs for our retirement. We are both 50 years old and plan on working for the next 7 or 8 years. Our plan is to purchase and use it a few times a year and rent/lease it out for the remainder of the year until we reach retirement at which time we would spend 4 or 5 months a years there. Looking for some advice on what we should be looking out for and what would be a better choice mortgage wise, U.S. or Canadian funding. Or is it a good idea at all to purchase U.S. real estate as a Canadian? Any advice or literature that's out there that you could direct us to would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
xxxxx xxxxxxxx
Hi,
My wife and I are looking at possibly purchasing a condo in Palm Springs for our retirement. We are both 50 years old and plan on working for the next 7 or 8 years. Our plan is to purchase and use it a few times a year and rent/lease it out for the remainder of the year until we reach retirement at which time we would spend 4 or 5 months a years there. Looking for some advice on what we should be looking out for and what would be a better choice mortgage wise, U.S. or Canadian funding. Or is it a good idea at all to purchase U.S. real estate as a Canadian? Any advice or literature that's out there that you could direct us to would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
xxxxx xxxxxxxx
------------------------------------------------------------------------
david ingram replies:
If your intention is to start spending significant time there, buying now is extemely sensible because you are buying it at today's price which will logically go up in the futre. You 'are' of course, also dealing with exchange.
Since your earnings are in Canadian dollars, borrowing the money in Canada and paying cash in palm Springs means that you wil be paying in a known currency.
To explain that statement, persons who bought in 1991 with a US mortgage paymnet of $1,000 needed $1,145.87 Canadian dollars to make the payment. By 2001, they needed $1,548.62 to stay even.
However, in reverse, if you bought in 2002, you needed 1,570.36 and only need about $1,060 to stay even today.
Currency exchange does go both ways.
You might want to borrow half in Canada and take out a mortgage for half in Palm Springs.
If you are renting the property, you will both need to file a US Federal 1040NR with Shedule E and California 540NR return and then change the currency to Canadian and file form T776 with your Canadian T1 returns. Failure to file the form 1040NR can have penalties of $1,000 to $10,000 per year per return per person even if you lose money. A very real problem is that all sorts of Canadians approach a US accountant and ask about filing and are told they do not need to file a return because they are losing money. Not so. When it comes time to file, hunt down a specialist in dual country tax returns like Gary Gauvin in Dallas,, Steve Peters in Halifax, Kevyn Nightingale in Toronto, Brad Howland in Victoria or myself in Good Olde North Vancouver.
Whatever you do, do NOT buy it in a corporate name. You will not save anything and end up with another $2 or $3,000 of accounting fees.
You will also need to file personal US tax returns if you are there more than an average of 120 days a year. See the April 1994 newsletter in the top left handbox at www.centa.com
-------------------------
david ingram replies:
If your intention is to start spending significant time there, buying now is extemely sensible because you are buying it at today's price which will logically go up in the futre. You 'are' of course, also dealing with exchange.
Since your earnings are in Canadian dollars, borrowing the money in Canada and paying cash in palm Springs means that you wil be paying in a known currency.
To explain that statement, persons who bought in 1991 with a US mortgage paymnet of $1,000 needed $1,145.87 Canadian dollars to make the payment. By 2001, they needed $1,548.62 to stay even.
However, in reverse, if you bought in 2002, you needed 1,570.36 and only need about $1,060 to stay even today.
Currency exchange does go both ways.
You might want to borrow half in Canada and take out a mortgage for half in Palm Springs.
If you are renting the property, you will both need to file a US Federal 1040NR with Shedule E and California 540NR return and then change the currency to Canadian and file form T776 with your Canadian T1 returns. Failure to file the form 1040NR can have penalties of $1,000 to $10,000 per year per return per person even if you lose money. A very real problem is that all sorts of Canadians approach a US accountant and ask about filing and are told they do not need to file a return because they are losing money. Not so. When it comes time to file, hunt down a specialist in dual country tax returns like Gary Gauvin in Dallas,, Steve Peters in Halifax, Kevyn Nightingale in Toronto, Brad Howland in Victoria or myself in Good Olde North Vancouver.
Whatever you do, do NOT buy it in a corporate name. You will not save anything and end up with another $2 or $3,000 of accounting fees.
You will also need to file personal US tax returns if you are there more than an average of 120 days a year. See the April 1994 newsletter in the top left handbox at www.centa.com
-------------------------
It is very unlikely that blind or unexpected email to me
will be answered. I receive anywhere from 100 to 700 unsolicited
emails a day and usually answer anywhere from 2 to 20 if they are not from
existing clients. Existing clients are advised to put their 'name and
PAYING CUSTOMER' in the subject and get answered first. I also refuse to
be a slave to email and do not look at it every day and have never ever looked
at it when I am out of town. expert US Canada Canadian
American Mexican Income Tax
help
Therefore, if an email is not answered in 24 to 36 hours, it is lost in space. You can try and resend it but if important AND YOU TRULY WANT OR NEED AN ANSWER, you will have to phone to make an appointment. Gillian Bryan generally accepts appointment requests for me between 10:30 AM and 4:00 PM Monday to Friday VANCOUVER (Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles) time at (604) 980-0321. expert US Canada Canadian American Mexican Income Tax help.
david ingram's US / Canada Services
US / Canada / Mexico tax, Immigration and working Visa Specialists
US / Canada Real Estate Specialists
My Home office is at:
4466 Prospect Road
North Vancouver, BC, CANADA, V7N 3L7
Cell (604) 657-8451 -
(604) 980-0321 Fax (604) 980-0325
North Vancouver, BC, CANADA, V7N 3L7
Cell (604) 657-8451 -
(604) 980-0321 Fax (604) 980-0325
Calls welcomed from 10 AM to 9 PM 7 days a week Vancouver (LA) time - (please do not fax or phone outside of those hours as this is a home office) expert US Canada Canadian American Mexican Income Tax help.
Disclaimer: This question has been answered without detailed
information or consultation and is to be regarded only as general
comment. Nothing in this message is or should be construed as advice
in any particular circumstances. No contract exists between the reader and the
author and any and all non-contractual duties are expressly denied. All
readers should obtain formal advice from a competent and
appropriately qualified legal practitioner or tax specialist
for expert help, assistance, preparation,
or consultation in connection with personal or
business affairs such as at www.centa.com. If you forward this message, this disclaimer must be
included." expert US Canada Canadian American Mexican
Income Tax help.
David Ingram gives expert
income tax & immigration help to non-resident Americans &
Canadians from New York to California to Mexico family,
estate, income trust trusts Cross border, dual citizen - out of
country investments are all handled with competence &
authority.
Phone consultations are $400 for
15 minutes to 50 minutes (professional hour). Please note that GST is added if
product remains in Canada or is to be returned to Canada or a phone consultation
is in Canada.
expert US Canada Canadian American Mexican
Income Tax help.
This is not intended to be definitive but in
general I am quoting $900 to $2,900 for a dual country tax
return.
$900 would be one T4 slip one W2 slip one or
two interest slips and you lived in one country only (but were filing both
countries) - no self employment or rentals or capital gains - you did not move
into or out of the country in this year.
$1,100 would be the same with one rental
$1,300 would be the same with one business no
rental
$1,300 would be the minimum with a move in or
out of the country. These are complicated because of the back and forth foreign
tax credits. - The IRS says a foreign tax credit takes 1 hour and 53
minutes.
$1,600 would be the minimum with a rental or
two in the country you do not live in or a rental and a business and foreign tax
credits no move in or out
$1,700 would be for two people with income from two countries
$2,900 would be all of the above and you moved
in and out of the country.
This is just a guideline for US / Canadian
returns
We will still prepare Canadian only
(lives in Canada, no US connection period) with two or three slips and no
capital gains, etc. for $175.00 up.
With a Rental for $375
A Business for $375 - Rental and business
likely $500
And an American only (lives in the US with no
Canadian income or filing period) with about the same things in the same range
with a little bit more if there is a state return.
Moving in or out of the country or part year
earnings in the US will ALWAYS be $800 and up.
TDF 90-22.1 forms are $50 for the first and
$25.00 each after that when part of a tax return.
8891 forms are generally $50.00 to $100.00
each.
18 RRSPs would be $900.00 - (maybe amalgamate
a couple)
Capital gains *sales) are likely $50.00
for the first and $20.00 each after that.
Catch - up returns for the US where we use the Canadian return as a guide will be $150 to $500.00 depending upon numbers of bank accounts, RRSP's, existence of rental houses, etc.
Just a guideline not etched in stone.
This from "ask an income trusts tax and immigration
expert" from www.centa.com or www.jurock.com or www.featureweb.com. David Ingram
deals on a daily basis with expatriate tax returns with multi
jurisdictional cross and trans border expatriate problems for the United
States, Canada, Mexico, Great Britain, United Kingdom, Kuwait, Dubai, Saudi
Arabia, Thailand, Indonesia, Japan, China, New Zealand, France, Germany, Spain,
Italy, Russia, Georgia, Brazil, Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia, Scotland, Ireland,
Hawaii, Florida, Montana, Morocco, Israel, Iraq, Iran, India, Pakistan,
Afghanistan, Mali, Bangkok, Greenland, Iceland, Cuba, Bahamas, Bermuda,
Barbados, St Vincent, Grenada,, Virgin Islands, US, UK, GB, and any of the 43
states with state tax returns, etc. Rockwall, Dallas, San Antonio Houston,
Denmark, Finland, Sweden Norway Bulgaria Croatia Income Tax and Immigration
Tips, Income Tax Immigration Wizard Antarctica
Rwanda Guru Consultant Specialist Section 216(4) 216(1) NR6
NR-6 NR 6 Non-Resident Real Estate tax specialist expert
preparer expatriate anti money laundering money seasoning
FINTRAC E677 E667 105 106 TDF-90 Reporting $10,000 cross border
transactions Grand Cayman Aruba Zimbabwe South Africa Namibia help USA US Income
Tax Convention. expert US Canada Canadian American Mexican
Income Tax help.
David Ingram expert income tax and immigration help and preparation of US Canada Mexico non-resident and cross border returns with rental dividend wages self-employed and royalty foreign tax credits family estate trust trusts income tax convention treaty
New York, Boston, Sacramento, Minneapolis,
Salem, Wheeling, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Pensacola, Miami, St
Petersburg, Naples, Fort Myers, Cape Coral, Orlando, Atlanta, Arlington,
Washington, Hudson, Green Bay, Minot, Portland, Seattle, St John, St John's,
Fredericton, Quebec, Moncton, Truro, Atlanta, Charleston, San Francisco, Los
Angeles, San Diego, Sacramento, Taos, Grand Canyon, Reno, Las Vegas, Phoenix,
Sun City, Tulsa, Monteray, Carmel, Morgantown, Bemidji, Sandpointe, Pocatello,
Bellingham, Custer, Grand Forks, Lead, Rapid City, Mitchell, Kansas City,
Lawrence, Houston, Albany, Framingham, Cambridge, London, Paris, Prince George,
Prince Rupert, Whitehorse, Anchorage, Fairbanks, Frankfurt, The Hague, Lisbon,
Madrid, Atlanta, Myrtle Beach, Key West, Cape Coral, Fort Meyers,
Berlin, Hamburg, Warsaw, Auckland, Wellington, Honolulu, Maui, Kuwait,
Molokai, Beijing, Shanghai, Tokyo, Manilla, Kent, Winnipeg, Saskatoon, Regina,
Red Deer, Olds, Medicine Hat, Lethbridge, Moose Jaw, Brandon, Portage La
Prairie, Davidson, Craik, Edmonton, Calgary, Victoria, Vancouver, Burnaby,
Surrey, Edinburgh, Dublin, Belfast, Glasgow, Copenhagen, Oslo, Munich, Sydney,
Nanaimo, Brisbane, Melbourne, Darwin, Perth, Athens, Rome, Berne, Zurich, Kyoto,
Nanking, Rio De Janeiro, Brasilia, Colombo, Buenos Aries, Squamish, Churchill,
Lima, Santiago, Abbotsford, Cologne, Yorkshire, Hope, Penticton, Kelowna,
Vernon, Fort MacLeod, Deer Lodge, Springfield, St Louis, Centralia, Bradford,
Stratford on Avon, Niagara Falls, Atlin, Fort Nelson, Fort St James, Red Deer,
Drumheller, Fortune, Red Bank, Marystown, Cape Spears, Truro, Charlottetown,
Summerside, Niagara Falls, income trust, Income Tax Treaty Convention.
- expert US Canada Canadian American Mexican Income Tax
help.
david ingram International
non-resident cross border expert income tax & immigration help estate family
trust assistance expert preparation & immigration consultant, income
trusts experts on rentals mutual funds RRSP RESP IRA 401(K) & divorce
preparer preparers consultants Income Tax Convention Treaty.
expert US Canada Canadian
American Mexican Income Tax help.
Be ALERT, the world needs more "lerts".
expert US Canada Canadian American Mexican
Income Tax service help. -
expert us canada canadian Mexico income tax
help
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1197 - Release Date: 25/12/2007 8:04 PM
