Forms for taking money to OR FROM the US - e667 e677 104 105 CROSS BORDER CURRENCY REPORTING - For those buying cars in the US -
David:
david ingram replies:
Taking money across the border to buy a car is an interesting experience. The last time I did it, I handed the form in to the US person at the border and he looked at it and said "it's wrong", go inside.
So in I went and it was wrong.
I was going down to buy a used cadillac and had $15,000 US with me and had declared it.
Unfortunately, I also had some Canadian money with me and had neglected to include it. The border guard looked at the $15,000 US and instinctively knew i had some Canasdian cash as well and the inside fellow gave me royal hell for not declaring "everything"
The US forms eventually go to Detroit and the Canadian forms go to FINTRAC in Ottawa. However, YOU hand them in at the border.
FINTRAC
24th floor, 234 Laurier Avenue West
Ottawa, ON
K1P 1H7
CANADA
This older Q & A will give you the forms needed:
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
david ingram replies:
If you have transferred $9.600 so far and have paid it out already, there is no problem. If you are transferring smaller amounts because you are trying to amass an amount over $10,000 for a single purpose, then you have to report the transfer of more than $10,000 AND the financial institution you have transferred the money to in the USA should be reporting the transaction as well. In fact making several transfers for a total of $12,000 could make you look like a suspicous person whereas one $15,000 transfer would never raise a suspicious person report, especially if the money was then paid out to credit card companies.
The rules for reporting take place for both countries when there is a transfer (or series of transfers) of more than $10,000.
If you do it as a bank transfer, you do not need to worry. The bank will do the reporting for you.
If you take cash out in Caanda and take it across the border yourself, YOU have to do the reporting to both countries.
This older series of questions will help
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pbg/cf/e667/e667-fill-06b.pdf
The E667 is filled out by the Bank or financial institution and you do not usually see it.
The following E677 is filled in by yourself and handed in at the airport OR LAND BORDER to CANADIAN CUSTOMS AS YOU LEAVE OR AS YOU ENTER
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pbg/cf/e677/e677-fill-06b.pdf
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
However, I regularly search for the words"PAYING
CUSTOMER" and always answer them first if they did not get spammed out.
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messages, my deleted box has 8063 I have actually looked at and deleted
and I answerd 576 email questions for clients and strangers. I have
also put aside 472 messages that I am maybe going to try and answer
because they look interesting. -expert US Canada Canadian American Mexican Income
Tax help
Calls welcomed from 10 AM to 9 PM 7 days a week Vancouver (LA) time - (please do not fax or phone outside of those hours as this is a home office) expert US Canada Canadian American Mexican Income Tax help.
$1,600 would be for two people with income from two countries
Thanks
for the minutes you just spent with me on the phone about taking money
to Seattle to pay for a car I have already ordered and put a deposit on.
Please
send me the links for the forms for both the Canadian side and the
What
happens to this information after I provide the forms? Just
record-keeping for
both countries to determine how much money is going in each direction?
Thanks,
david ingram replies:
Taking money across the border to buy a car is an interesting experience. The last time I did it, I handed the form in to the US person at the border and he looked at it and said "it's wrong", go inside.
So in I went and it was wrong.
I was going down to buy a used cadillac and had $15,000 US with me and had declared it.
Unfortunately, I also had some Canadian money with me and had neglected to include it. The border guard looked at the $15,000 US and instinctively knew i had some Canasdian cash as well and the inside fellow gave me royal hell for not declaring "everything"
The US forms eventually go to Detroit and the Canadian forms go to FINTRAC in Ottawa. However, YOU hand them in at the border.
FINTRAC
24th floor, 234 Laurier Avenue West
Ottawa, ON
K1P 1H7
CANADA
Email
[email protected]
Telephone
1-866-346-8722 (toll free)
Facsimile
(613) 943-7931
This older Q & A will give you the forms needed:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just saw a question you answered about a Canadian
living in the US as a permanent resident selling a home and wanting to
transfer the money to a US bank. (
http://www.david-ingram.com/CEN-TAPEDE/archive/Week-of-Mon-20061009/002904.html) I'm
in the same situation, except I want to keep most of the money in
Canada. You said, below, that the banks will notify the treasury on
amounts over $10,000. Is this $10,000 at any one time, or per calendar
year?
What I want to do is bring enough money to pay off my US
credit cards. Through several bank withdrawals and cheque deposits I've
already put about $9600 Canadian into my US bank (not at the same time)
to pay bills. Do I need to wait until next year to bring more in, or is
it okay to continue doing this? I would need maybe another $11,000 to
pay everything off here.
Thanks!
david ingram replies:
If you have transferred $9.600 so far and have paid it out already, there is no problem. If you are transferring smaller amounts because you are trying to amass an amount over $10,000 for a single purpose, then you have to report the transfer of more than $10,000 AND the financial institution you have transferred the money to in the USA should be reporting the transaction as well. In fact making several transfers for a total of $12,000 could make you look like a suspicous person whereas one $15,000 transfer would never raise a suspicious person report, especially if the money was then paid out to credit card companies.
The rules for reporting take place for both countries when there is a transfer (or series of transfers) of more than $10,000.
If you do it as a bank transfer, you do not need to worry. The bank will do the reporting for you.
If you take cash out in Caanda and take it across the border yourself, YOU have to do the reporting to both countries.
This older series of questions will help
This last
question just gave me an idea for a new question:
What if I
bring say $15 000 US into Canada but I do it at several trips and
every time I carry less then $10 000 (3000-5000)? Any forms to fill or
report? Thanks.
every time I carry less then $10 000 (3000-5000)? Any forms to fill or
report? Thanks.
PxXXXX
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
david ingram
replies:
Both
countries make the transportation of more than $10,000 in pieces a
crime as well.
However, if
you were sending a $1,000 a month to a savings plan or something, that
would not matter.
The crime
would be trying to assemble the more than $10,000 in the other country
when you had the ability to send it all at once.
I.E. You
have $25,000 in a bank in Seattle and send $5,000 every couple of days
until it is all in Canada.
In that case,
if your banks spotted what was going on, "they" would report you.
The bank will
also report when several cheques arrive from different sources and they
add up to significant amounts whether the source is from the US or
not. This is to stop people from keeping their money in other people's
accounts and assembling it when they need it.
All part of
anti money laundering legislation.
=============
the original
question and answer follows
What forms do
I have to fill out if I am transporting more than $10,000 across the
Canadian Border
==============================
david ingram
replies: The forms are E677 and E667 for Canada and as of September
1, 2004 )today) 104 and 105 for the US if you are bringing the money
out of the US into Canada..
The US
bank will report the deposit or withdrawal to the US FINCEN on form
4789 (which is still valid until August 31, 2004) or more likely the
new form 104 which you can find at: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/ffc104.pdf
When you
then move the money to Canada by money order or check, the bank or
financial institution will report it again.
The US penalties for failure to fill in these simple forms is
up to $500,000 PLUS 5 years in jail.
If you
remove more than $10,000 at any one time, the bank will report those
transactions as well.
If you
decide to carry the cash or transport it out of the USA as a cashier's
cheque, you have to file form 105 (old form 4790). You can find the
form at: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/ffc105.pdf
Canada has
moved its forms in the last few days and i had a devil of a time trying
to find them. You can find both E677 and E667 below.
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pbg/cf/e667/e667-fill-06b.pdf
The E667 is filled out by the Bank or financial institution and you do not usually see it.
The following E677 is filled in by yourself and handed in at the airport OR LAND BORDER to CANADIAN CUSTOMS AS YOU LEAVE OR AS YOU ENTER
It is very unlikely that blind or unexpected
email to me will be answered. I receive anywhere from 100 to 700
unsolicited emails a day and usually answer anywhere from 2 to 20 if
they are not from existing clients. Existing clients are advised to
put their 'name and PAYING CUSTOMER' in the subject and get answered
first. I also refuse to be a slave to email and do not look at it
every day and have never ever looked at it when i am out of town. expert
US Canada Canadian American Mexican Income Tax help
Therefore, if an email is not answered in 24
to 36 hours, it is lost in space. You can try and resend it but if
important, you will have to phone to make an appointment. Gillian
Bryan generally accepts appointment requests for me between 10:30 AM
and 4:00 PM Monday to Friday VANCOUVER (Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles)
time at (604) 980-0321. expert US Canada Canadian American Mexican
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Calls welcomed from 10 AM to 9 PM 7 days a week Vancouver (LA) time - (please do not fax or phone outside of those hours as this is a home office) expert US Canada Canadian American Mexican Income Tax help.
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This is not intended to be
definitive but in general I am quoting $800 to $2,800 for a dual
country tax return.
$800 would be one T4 slip one W2
slip one or two interest slips and you lived in one country only - no
self employment or rentals or capital gains - you did not move into or
out of the country in this year.
$1,000 would be the same with one
rental
$1,200 would be the same with one
business no rental
$1,200 would be the minimum with
a move in or out of the country. These are complicated because of the
back and forth foreign tax credits. - The IRS says a foreign tax credit
takes 1 hour and 53 minutes.
$1,500 would be the minimum with
a rental or two in the country you do not live in or a rental and a
business and foreign tax credits no move in or out
$1,600 would be for two people with income from two countries
$2,800 would be all of the above
and you moved in and out of the country.
This is just a guideline for US /
Canadian returns
We will still prepare
Canadian only (lives in Canada, no US connection period) with two or
three slips and no capital gains, etc. for $150.00 up.
With a Rental for $350
A Business for $350 - Rental and
business likely $450
And an American only (lives in
the US with no Canadian income or filing period) with about the same
things in the same range with a little bit more if there is a state
return.
Moving in or out of the country
or part year earnings in the US will ALWAYS be $800 and up.
TDF 90-22.1 forms are $50 for the
first and $25.00 each after that when part of a tax return.
8891 forms are generally $50.00
to $100.00 each.
18 RRSPs would be $900.00 -
(maybe amalgamate a couple)
Capital gains *sales) are likely
$50.00 for the first and $20.00 each after that.
Just a guideline not etched
in stone.
This from "ask an income trusts tax and
immigration expert" from www.centa.com or www.jurock.com or www.featureweb.com. David Ingram deals on a daily basis with expatriate
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