MessageThe following is a correction to my answer.
Quite frankly, I did not recognize that you could use
time paid into US Social Security to qualify for the 20
year provision to collect Canadian OAS in the US.
And Frank Norman also wrote to make sure that my
audience recognized that although I was correct about
using CPP_ credits to qualify for US Social Security,
it is only the credits that qualify you for the pension
based upon the time you actually paid into US social
security and that the "MONEY" paid into the CPP does
not have any affect on the amount of the US Social
Security.
Thank you Frank and Andrew.
Anyone in this position can read the whole agreement
that I referred to in Andrews reference below. It is
the same agreement but i just did not recognize the
actual implementation. I ALWAYS give credit when
corrected.
david ingram
-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson, Andrew G.
[mailto:agnelson at cal.ameren.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:51 AM
To: taxman at centa.com
Subject: RE: Canadian asks about CPP &
OAS - a cross-border International real estate rental
mutual funds immigration non-resident income tax
expert - David Ingram 's CEN-TA Services in North
Vancouver BC Canada on It's Your Money CKBD AM600 Fred
Snyd
Sure do.
http://www.ssa.gov/international/Agreement_Pamphlets/ca
nada.html
The relevant section:
IV.A.2. Benefits from Canada Canada provides
retirement, survivors and disability benefits through
two separate programs.
Old-Age Security (OAS) Program
To get OAS benefits, you must be 65 or older and
must have been a resident of Canada for at least 10
years after age 18 (or 20 years after age 18 to have
benefits paid outside Canada).
Under the agreement, Canada will consider your
U.S. Social Security credits earned after 1951 and
after age 18, along with periods of residence in Canada
after 1951 and after age 18, to meet the OAS residence
requirements. However, to be eligible to have your U.S.
credits counted, you must have resided in Canada for at
least one year after 1951 and after age 18.
In other words, for benefits to be paid outside
Canada for longer than 6 months, one needs 20 years of
residency. The agreement states that US SS quarters can
be used to make up that residency requirement.
I'm helping a woman right now to get her OAS who has
lived 40 years in US, but had 10 years after age 18 and
after 1951. It will only be a quarter (10/40ths) of
what you will get, but its free money.
Similar wording is found in the Cdn website:
http://www.sdc.gc.ca/en/isp/pub/ibfa/usa-i.shtml
http://www.sdc.gc.ca/en/isp/ibfa/countries/agreements/u
sa-a.shtml
1.. Article IX 3 a) an Old Age Security pension
shall be paid to a person who is outside Canada only if
that person's periods of residence, totalized as
provided in Article VIII, are at least equal to the
minimum period of residence in Canada required by the
Old Age Security Act for entitlement to the payment of
a pension outside Canada; and ... [bold mine showing
that this residency period can be totalized]
-----Original Message-----
From: David Ingram [mailto:taxman at centa.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 10:26 AM
To: Nelson, Andrew G.
Subject: RE: Canadian asks about CPP &
OAS - a cross-border International real estate rental
mutual funds immigration non-resident income tax
expert - David Ingram 's CEN-TA Services in North
Vancouver BC Canada on It's Your Money CKBD AM600 Fred
Snyd
Andrew - are you sure of this?
I don't work with OAS, CPP and SS much but I know
that a couple of clients have had their OAS cancelled
and would have qualified under your rules.
I have just taken another look and do not see it
easily.
Do you have an article or reference I can read.
david
-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson, Andrew G.
[mailto:agnelson at cal.ameren.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 6:35 AM
To: taxman at centa.com; centapede at lists.centa.com
Subject: RE: Canadian asks about CPP &
OAS - a cross-border International real estate rental
mutual funds immigration non-resident income tax
expert - David Ingram 's CEN-TA Services in North
Vancouver BC Canada on It's Your Money CKBD AM600 Fred
Snyd
David,
The totalization agreement between US and Canada
allows quarters earned in US to count towards the 20
year requirement to be able to collect OAS outside
Canada.
So in this example, if one contributes 28 quarters to
SS, they will be entitled to collect 13/40ths of normal
OAS, paid to them forever, outside Canada.
-----Original Message-----
From: centapede-bounces at lists.centa.com
[mailto:centapede-bounces at lists.centa.com] On Behalf Of
centapede at lists.centa.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 2:02 AM
To: CENTAPEDE
Cc: Webmaster at Jurock. Com
Subject: Canadian asks about CPP &
OAS - a cross-border International real estate rental
mutual funds immigration non-resident income tax
expert - David Ingram 's CEN-TA Services in North
Vancouver BC Canada on It's Your Money CKBD AM600 Fred
Snyder's
To: taxman at centa.com
Subject: I have a few questions
David,
I have a few questions I would like to ask you.
First, Pension I read that it's possible to top up
your pension years if your short
so it's possible to get full pension.
I lived in Canada for 13 years from age 18.
is it worth while to pay up my cpp for 7 years
so I can get full pension 65 ?
I now live in the us with over 10 years of pension
earnings
so I will get full pension here. Would I be paid
two pensions
by paying up my cpp ?
Second, I believe I may own rev can some money from
12 yrs
ago do I need to worry about it ? I think I read
about rev can having some amnesty programme.
I don't think I will ever live in Canada again as
a tax resident. I may visit for a few months.
In fact I'm considering leaving here (usa) for some
cheap
warm year round location at retirement time.
Thanks,
=============================== david ingram
replies:If you are not living in Canada or working out
of the country for a Canadian Company, there is no way
to top up your CPP or OAS.If you you have not lived in
Canada for 20 years after turning 18, you can NOT
collect your OAS out of the countryYou WILL get a small
CPP pension based upon your 13 years in Canada no
matter where you live.You WILL get a small US Social
Security Pension based upon your contributions no
matter where you live.Rev Canada will not have forgiven
your debt. Just today, I received a notice for an 88
year old man on old age pension. The CRA (old Revenue
Canada) is trying to collect $1,800 for 1987. That is a
17 year old debt and he did not know that he owed them
anything. However, we filed a 2003 return to get his a
tax credit and the CRA grabbed the tax credit and sent
him a bill.hopAnswers to this and other similar
questions can be obtained free on Air every Sunday
morning. Every Sunday at 9:00 AM on 600AM in Vancouver,
Fred Snyder of Dundee Wealth Management and I, David
Ingram will be hosting an INFOMERCIAL but LIVE talk
show called "ITS YOUR MONEY" Those outside of the Lower
Mainland will be able to listen on the internet at
www.600AM.com Local calls are taken at (604) 280-0600
and Long Distance calls are taken at 1( 866) 778-0600 I
do not know how far the LD line
reaches.=========================================This
from "ask an income tax and immigration expert" from
www.centa.com or www.jurock.com or www.featureweb.com.
David Ingram deals on a daily basis with expatriate tax
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